ML 1 Modern v1 vs v2

#22
I realize this is a "cultural" (Or at least the view on it differs a lot beteen countries) thing but I have issues with buying things on credit that you don't really need. Better to save up.
Guitars are an excellent investment.

Financing also allows people to purchase instruments that are otherwise unaffordable.

But mainly, suggesting a guitar or instrument isn’t something you really need made my stomach churn.

Guitars maintain their value really, really well and smart purchase will appreciate.
 

mirage2101

Well-Known Member
#23
Hi DeadLazy! Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to go by the introduction part and tell us a bit about who you are.
I'm going to answer to your points because these are things I read more often on the internet and I think are wrong or even dangerous. Please don't take it personal.

Guitars are an excellent investment.
No they're not. They lose 1/3rd of their value as soon as you walk out of the store. After that they keep their value pretty well if they're not damaged etc. But your guitar won't go out and make money for you. It won't become worth more. It is NOT an excellent investment. If you buy used, you might resell without a loss, or if you do some work on the guitar maybe even a little bit of profit. But buying a guitar new from GC is not an investment from a financial point of view.

Financing also allows people to purchase instruments that are otherwise unaffordable.
Not true. You'll be making payments and in most cases pay interest. Say you're paying a $1000 guitar on finance. for two years. That means you'll be paying about $42 monthly. Add in a bit of interest and let's say it's 45. So in two years you'be pait 1072 for your guitar and it's yours. If you would've saved up 45 a month you would've been able to buy the guitar in 22 months.
Financing allows you to buy something you can't afford NOW by paying after getting the instrument instead of saving up in advance.

Now for a real example. You do this at andertons. And you're planning to pay off the guitar in 6 months. but somehow your income changes or you have some unforeseen expenses. From 6 months on you'll be paying 20% And even if you pay the remaining 500 in a year it'll still cost you around 100. These things happen. This is what gets people into debt

But mainly, suggesting a guitar or instrument isn’t something you really need made my stomach churn.
Just as suggesting to go into debt for one makes my stomach churn. You NEED: (aside from food, clothes etc) A roof over your head, a good education, maybe a car to get to work. And noone will begrudge you for (partially) using a loan to finance those things. But a guitar? If you're on a tight budget you go out and get a $100 squier instead of using financing. A guitar won't put food on your table or get your kids dressed. Unless it does and especially then I'd be against financing because your income will be hard to predict.

Guitars maintain their value really, really well and smart purchase will appreciate.
After their initial value dip they'll stay relatively constant. But during the financial crisis prices of used guitars dipped. People had to pay their mortage so there's less money to spend on hobbies. Guitars will not increase in value unless you have a great classic les paul or a guitar Hendrix used or something like that. And even then it's hard to predict. Your $500 mim strat isn't going to be worth $1000 in 20 years. (source: 1996 mim strats being sold on reverb for 350 right now)
A 56 goldtop les paul costs 250 in 56.. It's worth 35k now. IF it's still in good condition, was one of the good ones to start with and it was a legendary guitar. It also might be worth nothing or a couple of hundred before someone does a restoration on it.
If I would've put those same 250 into obligations that on average make 7% I'd have 17k now with no risk at all. I know what my long term investment would be.
 
#24
Hi DeadLazy! Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to go by the introduction part and tell us a bit about who you are.
I'm going to answer to your points because these are things I read more often on the internet and I think are wrong or even dangerous. Please don't take it personal.


No they're not. They lose 1/3rd of their value as soon as you walk out of the store. After that they keep their value pretty well if they're not damaged etc. But your guitar won't go out and make money for you. It won't become worth more. It is NOT an excellent investment. If you buy used, you might resell without a loss, or if you do some work on the guitar maybe even a little bit of profit. But buying a guitar new from GC is not an investment from a financial point of view.


Not true. You'll be making payments and in most cases pay interest. Say you're paying a $1000 guitar on finance. for two years. That means you'll be paying about $42 monthly. Add in a bit of interest and let's say it's 45. So in two years you'be pait 1072 for your guitar and it's yours. If you would've saved up 45 a month you would've been able to buy the guitar in 22 months.
Financing allows you to buy something you can't afford NOW by paying after getting the instrument instead of saving up in advance.

Now for a real example. You do this at andertons. And you're planning to pay off the guitar in 6 months. but somehow your income changes or you have some unforeseen expenses. From 6 months on you'll be paying 20% And even if you pay the remaining 500 in a year it'll still cost you around 100. These things happen. This is what gets people into debt


Just as suggesting to go into debt for one makes my stomach churn. You NEED: (aside from food, clothes etc) A roof over your head, a good education, maybe a car to get to work. And noone will begrudge you for (partially) using a loan to finance those things. But a guitar? If you're on a tight budget you go out and get a $100 squier instead of using financing. A guitar won't put food on your table or get your kids dressed. Unless it does and especially then I'd be against financing because your income will be hard to predict.


After their initial value dip they'll stay relatively constant. But during the financial crisis prices of used guitars dipped. People had to pay their mortage so there's less money to spend on hobbies. Guitars will not increase in value unless you have a great classic les paul or a guitar Hendrix used or something like that. And even then it's hard to predict. Your $500 mim strat isn't going to be worth $1000 in 20 years. (source: 1996 mim strats being sold on reverb for 350 right now)
A 56 goldtop les paul costs 250 in 56.. It's worth 35k now. IF it's still in good condition, was one of the good ones to start with and it was a legendary guitar. It also might be worth nothing or a couple of hundred before someone does a restoration on it.
If I would've put those same 250 into obligations that on average make 7% I'd have 17k now with no risk at all. I know what my long term investment would be.
Thanks.

First I’m not talking about speculating, period. I am talking about you’re not putting yourself in the poor house. If you buy a 1500$ guitar it’s going to hold value in a way most stuff you buy, won’t; you’ll also be able to sell it easily.

I am specifically speaking of the financing with 0% interest and that’s common. At some point during a year what you want will be up.

I’m generally a Fender guy and if I buy an American fender at 1500$ new and I turned around and sold it I could get, if it’s in excellent condition, 1100-1200 and it’s going to stay there and barring a lot of abuse will hold there well.

The Fender Strat I picked up in 2012 for 1200$ now goes for 15-1800. That’s not common but can happen. I’ll never sell it; I love that guitar. But if a rainy day happens or it’s needed I didn’t toss away money. It’s still an asset.

An instrument - be it for hobby or work - is an important part of people’s lives. It’s not frivolous and it’s use improves quality of life.

All things require responsibility and if you can handle the payment, it’s a great way to get a beautiful instrument that will give you a lot of joy.

I personally not only love them but use them for work. That said: it’s s great quality of life tool - mentally and emotionally - and important.

And that was personal. I’m sorry, but I assess your value judgment and subsequent response as missing the entire point of buying an instrument.

I don’t think you’re “dangerous”. I think you’re sad.

It’s becuase you gave out that little nugget of wisdom based of the assumption that someone is being irresponsible which, logically, is not the case. That would be a case by case basis. Instantly you then assume yours is the superior view, based on nothing.

More, is the inherent frivolousness you grouped musical instruments in with. Rich or poor music improves your life.
 
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ScutMonkey

Well-Known Member
#25
Thanks.

First I’m not talking about speculating, period. I am talking about you’re not putting yourself in the poor house. If you buy a 1500$ guitar it’s going to hold value in a way most stuff you buy, won’t; you’ll also be able to sell it easily.

I am specifically speaking of the financing with 0% interest and that’s common. At some point during a year what you want will be up.

I’m generally a Fender guy and if I buy an American fender at 1500$ new and I turned around and sold it I could get, if it’s in excellent condition, 1100-1200 and it’s going to stay there and barring a lot of abuse will hold there well.

The Fender Strat I picked up in 2012 for 1200$ now goes for 15-1800. That’s not common but can happen. I’ll never sell it; I love that guitar. But if a rainy day happens or it’s needed I didn’t toss away money. It’s still an asset.

An instrument - be it for hobby or work - is an important part of people’s lives. It’s not frivolous and it’s use improves quality of life.

All things require responsibility and if you can handle the payment, it’s a great way to get a beautiful instrument that will give you a lot of joy.

I personally not only love them but use them for work. That said: it’s s great quality of life tool - mentally and emotionally - and important.

And that was personal. I’m sorry, but I assess your value judgment and subsequent response as missing the entire point of buying an instrument.

I don’t think you’re “dangerous”. I think you’re sad.

It’s becuase you gave out that little nugget of wisdom based of the assumption that someone is being irresponsible which, logically, is not the case. That would be a case by case basis. Instantly you then assume yours is the superior view, based on nothing.

More, is the inherent frivolousness you grouped musical instruments in with. Rich or poor music improves your life.
So much no here. Businesses offer financing because it's good for them. They are counting on you to waste your money on it. They bake in all the risk and pass it off to you as well.

Chapman's always loose 20-30% off the bat and they've shown no history of keeping value. You've completely cherry picked your example because Fender and Gibson's are anomalies. Go look at those 80s super strats and see how well they're doing on resale in adjusted dollars. It's terrible.

And it's easy to assume a musician is being irresponsible. I've been in bands for over two decades. Compared to the general population they are. Who was it who said, "Work? I got into music so I wouldn't have to work." All I have to do is sit in my local buy, sell, and trade and every week I'll see a post saying something about "gotta sell some stuff because I don't have any money. Make me an offer."
 
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#26
So much no here. Businesses offer financing because it's good for them. They are counting on you to waste your money on it. They bake in all the risk and pass it off to you as well
Sorry, but the cynicism on display is embarrassing.

Of course it’s good for them: they sell more big ticket items.

Manage your money and your credit well and it’s good for you, too.

There have always been sharks in the tank but credit is and always has been, a benefit.

Someone opens a thread to discuss a guitar and someone who doesn’t even know a thing about that person comes in and shames them based off personal ideology and now you’re making a baseless statement that again, reflects nothing but your own perception.
 
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ScutMonkey

Well-Known Member
#27
Sorry, but the cynicism on display is embarrassing.

Of course it’s good for them: they sell more big ticket items.

Manage your money and your credit well and it’s good for you, too.
"Life is what happens when you're busy making plans."

Anyway, manage your money well and you don't have to use credit. I have an auto debit from my checking every paycheck. When there is enough money in it, I buy something I want. I'm advocating the same thing as you but one step further.

At this point in my life I finance one thing only. My house and that is because it's actually is a good investment. All my cars are used and I buy outright in cash. I have a cc for emergencies, but I never need it because I have a stash for rainy days I use first.
 
#28
"Life is what happens when you're busy making plans."

Anyway, manage your money well and you don't have to use credit. I have an auto debit from my checking every paycheck. When there is enough money in it, I buy something I want. I'm advocating the same thing as you but one step further.

At this point in my life I finance one thing only. My house and that is because it's actually is a good investment. All my cars are used and I buy outright in cash. I have a cc for emergencies, but I never need it because I have a stash for rainy days I use first.
A house is a good investment but don’t be house poor; that sucks.

Sorry but you’re arguing from a perspective not a truth: so am I. That’s ok. The animosity and passive aggressive nature of the responses is my gripe.

So for me I remember financing my first instrument. It was 0% and 29$ a month for 36 months. I remember getting up and running to the store and I was standing in line when I looked at my stuff and thought “what don’t I need here” and it was a long list.

That’s when I got really responsible. I saved 150$ more a month than I had prior to having that bill, after the bill was paid.

I loved that guitar so much, paying my bill was a big self esteem boost. I paid it off at no interest like the deal said ever since I’ve been much more responsible with money.

I’ll still do it even though I have money in saving to outright cover the expense. I like it because it keeps large stock piles of cash in my account and my credit score is excellent. That’s allowed me to do all sorts of things easier.

Especially when you’re a musician. It really helps to have good credit.

Anecdotally, that is my experience.

So is that false? It was a real boon to lots of facets of my life because I did it responsibly and later it allowed me to acquire no compromise, “dream” instruments. And you know, skillful means: you don’t need it but any weapon helps and I was on my no compromise amplifier years before I could have afforded it. I used it mentally: I was proud of it and I played more confidently and that’s been a boon to my career moving forward.

It’s a perspective. It’s how you use what you have.
 
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#29
**And even if you’re not a professional musician, at least - as you guys have done - where I’m from, music is not a hobby akin to video games.

It’s an important part of life and everybody’s got one. It’s as important (at the very least) as your home. And live music is where it’s at. Everyday I play music with people.

Upstairs I have the grand piano that was my Dad’s (he’s still around but he got a new one and gave me that one) and has been with my family for 70 years.

They’re necessary.
 

mirage2101

Well-Known Member
#30
I never said instruments aren’t important. The windshield of a car is pretty important too but the car will drive without it. You can play together with people on a used squier too. No need to get a loan for that.

0% financing is one thing. But it ends. And then a loan starts to cost. If you can pay of your purchase in 6 months, why not just wait 6 months to buy? That way you take zero risk by having just a bit of patience.
I feel the same pride you did by saving up for something instead of paying of a loan.

But whatever works for you. We’re arguing our point of view and you disagree. That’s fair enough. No need to get snippy about it.
 
#31
I never said instruments aren’t important. The windshield of a car is pretty important too but the car will drive without it. You can play together with people on a used squier too. No need to get a loan for that.

0% financing is one thing. But it ends. And then a loan starts to cost. If you can pay of your purchase in 6 months, why not just wait 6 months to buy? That way you take zero risk by having just a bit of patience.
I feel the same pride you did by saving up for something instead of paying of a loan.

But whatever works for you. We’re arguing our point of view and you disagree. That’s fair enough. No need to get snippy about it.
You were condensing and are again: you can play on a used squire and I will if there’s nothing else around but life is short and you could live in a one room apartment, too. Maybe you do. You can drive the cheapest car you can find.

Fundamentally we have a different perspective on the worth of an instrument. Around here, your instrument is more important than your car; some would say they only need the house so they have some place to put the piano.

It’s all a value judgment. Neither action is inherently correct or incorrect; responsible or irresponsible.

I genuinely think my perspective escapes you.

As long is it’s not condescending and judgmental I am ok with that. I’ll speak up though.
 

mirage2101

Well-Known Member
#32
You were condensing and are again: you can play on a used squire and I will if there’s nothing else around but life is short and you could live in a one room apartment, too. Maybe you do. You can drive the cheapest car you can find.

Fundamentally we have a different perspective on the worth of an instrument. Around here, your instrument is more important than your car; some would say they only need the house so they have some place to put the piano.

It’s all a value judgment. Neither action is inherently correct or incorrect; responsible or irresponsible.

I genuinely think my perspective escapes you.

As long is it’s not condescending and judgmental I am ok with that. I’ll speak up though.
You are avoiding answering my points and stubbornly keeping to the point that getting a loan is fine.
If that's your view. You do you.

I hope others don't.
 
#34
It's alright guys. It's up to me if I want to finance something, all good. Just wanted opinions on the guitar is all. Now not sure if I'd want the ML1 Trad or Modern, the modern is really sweet, nice in between sounds.
 

everfreetree

I... I like trees.
#35
So, how about those (insert random sports team)....
Did you see that ludicrous display last night..?

But yeah, seriously, this is a painfully pointless and aggressive derail, fellas.
snfrd84 just wants advice on the guitars, not how we think he should purchase them.
We can do that, yeah? Of course we can.

Anywho...
@snfrd84 Well, if you want Strat-esque sounds and you're thinking blues, surf rock, and general single coil sounds, then the Trad will get you, because nothing does single coils like, well... single coils. But if you're looking for a heavier, modern rock/metal sound, well, that's the humbucker-sporting Modern's job. Simple(ish) as that. I like to think of coil-tapping/splitting and the like as "gravy", more than anything, so if you like the basic idea of one of them, anything else it offers will be a bonus.
And I'd personally go for the V2, judging by what I've seen of the finish quality improvements alone. If they can get the pretty finishes done better, I'd like to think they have at least a BIT more skill in doing the fretwork and all, as well, ya know?

I wish you luck on your decision, either way, but remember to check as many videos and such as possible, to get an idea of the range of sounds you might be able to get, before you make your final choice.
Unless you hate research... in which case, get the prettiest one, it'll probably sound at LEAST as cool as it looks, heh.
 
#36
Did you see that ludicrous display last night..?

But yeah, seriously, this is a painfully pointless and aggressive derail, fellas.
snfrd84 just wants advice on the guitars, not how we think he should purchase them.
We can do that, yeah? Of course we can.

Anywho...
@snfrd84 Well, if you want Strat-esque sounds and you're thinking blues, surf rock, and general single coil sounds, then the Trad will get you, because nothing does single coils like, well... single coils. But if you're looking for a heavier, modern rock/metal sound, well, that's the humbucker-sporting Modern's job. Simple(ish) as that. I like to think of coil-tapping/splitting and the like as "gravy", more than anything, so if you like the basic idea of one of them, anything else it offers will be a bonus.
And I'd personally go for the V2, judging by what I've seen of the finish quality improvements alone. If they can get the pretty finishes done better, I'd like to think they have at least a BIT more skill in doing the fretwork and all, as well, ya know?

I wish you luck on your decision, either way, but remember to check as many videos and such as possible, to get an idea of the range of sounds you might be able to get, before you make your final choice.
Unless you hate research... in which case, get the prettiest one, it'll probably sound at LEAST as cool as it looks, heh.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I pulled the trigger on an ML1 Modern V2 from Musicians Friend today. Will come 07/16, but that's ok. Got the lunar black. Still says it comes with a gig bag, but thought they werent going to do them with the V2?s
 

everfreetree

I... I like trees.
#37
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I pulled the trigger on an ML1 Modern V2 from Musicians Friend today. Will come 07/16, but that's ok. Got the lunar black. Still says it comes with a gig bag, but thought they werent going to do them with the V2?s
Hmm... could be a typo, or maybe it comes with a Musicians Friend gigbag.
I guess you'll find out next month, I suppose.
Congrats, and I hope you enjoy it, bud!
 
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