How hard is it to find like-minded bandmates?

EMM

I am the cat who walks by himself
#41
Second necrobump of my own thread...
I gave up on the stupid band thing months ago, as you just end up with dealing with too many incompetent tools.

First band...
Couldn’t find a suitable drummer!

Second band...
Couldn’t find a suitable singer!

Third band...
Couldn’t find a suitable anyone!!!

so I gave up!!!!!!

I have started writing Orchestral music instead, as from experience, it’s surprisingly a lot easier to find trained, competent musicians in my area that are willing to play your shit, so you don’t have to!
 

johnniegoat

Stop, don’t, come back.
#45
my experience - which was a long time ago now

1/ decide what kind of band you are. if its just a jam and a few beers, that is cool. if its something more, make the effort

2/ if you are just there to play, don't be the best player. join a band where you are the worst musician. you'll learn loads

3/ if you are not the best player, that is not an excuse for Johnny Chops to crap all over the place. there's a reason why rhythm instrument players end up leading bands

4/ if you want to be more than just a player, be it. don't wait to be asked. take the lead. write songs. stop songs if people are fucking around or playing the wrong bit and school them. might lead to conflict, but such is life

5/ if you can't find a drummer, get a machine. if you can't find a singer, sing. Hetfield just wanted to play guitar. Smashing Pumpkins played their first few gigs with no drummer. don't allow perfect to become the enemy of good

btw - i was only the best player in 1 band / jam in the 20 or so years of playing with other people. and i was always taking the lead

nothing worse than a gang of lazy dickheads who refuse to create or decide anything suddenly having an opinion on my stuff

singer - "how about i change this lyric here, it would flow better."

me - "no. it would flow better if you'd learn to sing. i wrote the song, its done. if you want other lyrics, write your own songs. now shut up and sing"

drummer "how about i..."

me - " can you go DOOF-DISH at 130bpm for 3 minutes? because that's how the song goes. if you want to play jazz, i am sure there's another band"

and so on
 

Chu

Well-Known Member
#46
It can be a nightmare finding like minded band mates but I think there's a special category for people looking to form a band with a very specific plan. For example, if I joined a band where I was expected to sing in a certain way, play a specific genre with limited scope for just doing what I do and enjoy best, then there needs to be some significant motivator. A shit hot drummer, own rehearsal space, existing success within the band or being paid for example.

With musician adverts, it's often super easy to work out who has written it; Drummer and vocalist wanted for megadeathcore band in the style of Brainooze and Bloodgurgle. There are few drummers out there that would be looking for that but plenty of guitarists.

It's also massively helpful to remember that many of your favourite bands are not made up of people that were looking to play what comes out when they first started.

4/ if you want to be more than just a player, be it. don't wait to be asked. take the lead. write songs. stop songs if people are fucking around or playing the wrong bit and school them. might lead to conflict, but such is life

5/ if you can't find a drummer, get a machine. if you can't find a singer, sing. Hetfield just wanted to play guitar. Smashing Pumpkins played their first few gigs with no drummer. don't allow perfect to become the enemy of good
The only reason I am the singer in my band is this. It's super easy to lament the lack of decent singers but at the same time, people inspired by the stuff I like are less likely to choose vocals as their primary instrument. When you're 14, you're more likely to want to play guitar or drums when you see a great rock band, especially when you find your pubescent voice a total bitch to rock with.

Often those that do strive to sing are more influenced by 'singers' music. Soul, jazz and ballad stuff. You ain't getting one of those in your hard rock band!

That said, there's no way I tell the others in my band exactly what to play. Even if I've demo'ed it to a good level, they still get to play their parts as they choose, as long as it's not detrimental to the song. I've tried being in 'someone else's band' and it's horrible. I expect to have my thoughts taken into account, not to the extent of vetoing someone else's song or destroying the concept of it, but if I was forbidden from making it my own, I'd be out in no time.

It's difficult if you're the one carrying a band, bringing in all the material when they try to change it. At least if there's a balance, you learn to trust each others judgement and try what they say. I'm sure you weren't implying you'd be dictatorial and I've just gone off on a tangent!​
 
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EMM

I am the cat who walks by himself
#47
2/ if you are just there to play, don't be the best player. join a band where you are the worst musician. you'll learn loads
I’ve had problems where this has been the reverse. I’ve had ”musicians” that when I explain basic theory terms to them, they look at me like, “what are you on about?”

It’s really bad when you get called in to play bass for a band, yet all they want you to do is strut about on stage looking cool (without your instrument being plugged in!). That has happened to me, luckily I pulled out when I could!

It’s just a clash of personalities at the end of the day, especially when a so-called “Bassist” bruises your ego!:p

I know quite a few local bands, one of which has a drummer (a good friend by the way) who said to me “If you read sheet music, you are a robot, not a musician” Bullshit!!! According to that logic, that means Ed Sheeran is more of a musician than Mozart ever was, and he hates Ed Sheeran with a passion!:facepalm:
 

Chu

Well-Known Member
#48
Erm.... Yeah. I'm crap at reading music but used to be able to sight read piano. Using sheet music does not kill musical passion, playing it robotically without expression does.

It's genuinely tough to get in a decent band as 'just' a guitarist. Since adding lead vocals to my CV, I no longer have to compete with better guitarists that are everywhere and don't have much of an issue finding others to play with. As my song writing has grown, I've also realised that I much prefer singing stuff I've written and can even fool a few people into thinking I'm actually quite good. Singing covers or songs others have written isn't anything like learning the guitar parts of those songs and it can be a real confidence destroyer. I've come to totally realise that some of my favourite singers (Freddie Mercury and Devin Townsend for example) sound as good as they do because they're singing songs designed for their voice. Except Mike Patton. He can sing absolutely everything.
 

EMM

I am the cat who walks by himself
#49
Erm.... Yeah. I'm crap at reading music but used to be able to sight read piano. Using sheet music does not kill musical passion, playing it robotically without expression does.

It's genuinely tough to get in a decent band as 'just' a guitarist. Since adding lead vocals to my CV, I no longer have to compete with better guitarists that are everywhere and don't have much of an issue finding others to play with. As my song writing has grown, I've also realised that I much prefer singing stuff I've written and can even fool a few people into thinking I'm actually quite good. Singing covers or songs others have written isn't anything like learning the guitar parts of those songs and it can be a real confidence destroyer. I've come to totally realise that some of my favourite singers (Freddie Mercury and Devin Townsend for example) sound as good as they do because they're singing songs designed for their voice. Except Mike Patton. He can sing absolutely everything.
I’m a terrible singer these days and have no intention to learn how to sing properly (being a lead in the choir at primary school is about all the experience I have) as I know there are some fantastic singers out there that would be way more adequate than I’ll ever be.

The real problem is that anyone and their fucking dog, because they can’t play an instrument or more accurately, can’t be arsed to learn an instrument, thinks that a few drunken karaoke nights down the boozer is enough for them to be able to front a serious band that wants to write their own shit!

I mean, really???

I realise you don’t have to be classically taught by Maria Callas’s Great-grandson to be a good singer but to state that you are a “vucullist” because you don’t play any instruments and enjoy “singing” in the shower is taking the piss amirite?
 

Chu

Well-Known Member
#50
I agree, in 2009 when I first got back into playing in a band, we tried out 6 or 7 different singers. The only one worth a revisit was a woman who just didn't really fit the style (not just because she was female, there are stacks of brilliant female rock singers but her voice just wasn't rock). The rest were ok at best and fucking horrific at worst. And clearly had never sung in a band before.... Hence why I ended up singing.

As I mentioned earlier, when you're young and are inspired by music you're listening to to get involved, you're way more likely to take up guitar, then drums or bass. Even at day one, you can (with half decent gear) learn a powerchord and immediately go 'Yes, this is for me'.

Your shitty undeveloped, unreliable teenage vocal chords will not be so obliging. Even if you hit the note, you'll sound like a child, not a rockstar so those with an interest in exploring music will go down the path of being a musician, not a singer for a few years. Then, once you've learned to play, to write and have bought nice gear you try to find a singer who is of the same level of ability as you. But because they've skipped the early bit, waited until their voices worked, did karaoke and realised it was quite enjoyable; a singer won't have the writing skills or gear and probably won't have the same dedication to music as musicians the same age because they really just want to pose a bit.

So we look at them with derision, knowing that they've no real idea what it takes to hold a band together, to write a song or just how long it takes to be good at an instrument.

But yet, those that did master their voices a little earlier and did band stuff younger fucking know it. They're wanted by a number of bands and can behave like total cunts without consequence.

So, ultimately it stands to reason that us guitarists, bass players and drummers will outnumber singers drastically. Expecting to lure one that has the pick of the market is practically impossible.

So this comes right back to the point, often, the best singer you have access to is yourself. Maybe you really don't have a good voice but the biggest breakthrough for me was accepting that mine was as good as I was going to get and then finding what it did well and what it did badly.
 

Tankman

Subtly not giving a F*ck
#51
I agree, it's quite difficult finding the right people to play with. Let me list my band experiences:

Band 1 was a Thrashy Death Metal band. I was 16 years old and the only reason we played the genre was because there was sort of a competition between local bands on who could be the hardest, loudest and heaviest. We won. The music was boring, though and two of the members were a bit older, had cars and had a different vision for the band than the rest of us. We kicked out our vocalist after one gig, because he drank too much. Before we could find a new vocalist, I quit, because the olders guys kind of took over and everything had to be done their way.

Band 2 never got off the ground because one guy only wanted to play Metallica, the other only wanted to play clean, the drummer didn't like and understand how to play rock music. It was a mess. I did meet my first serious girlfriend there. So at least I got one win out of it.

After this I moved to the Netherlands and tried to form a metal cover band with a classmate and a roommate. We practiced a few times and it was actually really good, but the drummer was never fully invested so we just kind of stopped, because he was never available.

Soon after, I befriended a new classmate. We talked about music, and that I played and she said her brother was in a band and I should check it out. She introduced me. He was the keyboard player (think Dream Theater style) in a prog rock/metal band. The influences were everywhere from Dream Theater, to Paul Gilbert to Devin Townsend. They invited me to jam and ended up telling me, although they didn't need a second guitar player, they liked me, so I could stick around if I wanted to. After a line up shake up I offered to play bass and introduced them to a new singer I had met. We did a bunch of gigs, released an EP and it was amazing! This band not continuing is such a shame. The vocalist took up an internship in Germany, so we decided to go on hiatus until he came back. He came back, but we never did. I tried reviving it a few times, but everybody had moved on.

I took advantage of this though and decided to play guitar again. I started a metal band. This time I had all the guys lined up from day one. The singer quit after one practice though. He was amazing, but was convinced he couldn't do it. Thankfully the bass player stepped up and took over vocals. Unfortunately, in the end after some grueling recording sessions which left me with tendinitis in my picking arm, the bass player proved to be such a pain to work with. His ego had grown out of proportion. He was good. Not that good. After about two months of being out of action he asked me when I was expecting to be back. I told him I decided to not come back at all.

After recovering I decided to start writing the music I really loved to play. It's a mixture of Incubus and Stone Sour. It can be heavy, but also clean and pretty. It took about two years to find the right drummer. He's still here 4 years later. Same for the bass player. The vocals took longer. We had a friend who didn't have the time, we had a friend who didn't have the skills. We then had a girl who saw it as her side project. Her voice and character didn't click. Then finally in 2017 we found our vocalist. She's a classically trained singer with a passion for what she does. She's also one of my closest personal friends now. Her only problem was her inexperience in writing her own songs. Also, everybody in the band has had their first child in the last year or so, so that's caused some delays. So we have been taking our time. It's been over 2 years of non stop practice, writing, recording etc, but this year will finally be the year that we can get up on a stage.

But, even this band has it's struggles. On more occasions I've wanted to strangle some of the other members. A band, even one that works, is just like a relationship. You won't always agree, you will have your fights. The thing about his band is that everybody is invested in it. We have our fights, but we are also all good friends. We get over it, talk it out and we treat each other with respect. We also know when to give each other space.
 

mirage2101

Well-Known Member
#52
I don't really want to play in a band. But finding some like minded jam mates would be fun. Sadly the jam in my town is populated by people that aren't a great fit. I'll have to broaden my horizons a bit.
 

Tankman

Subtly not giving a F*ck
#53
I don't really want to play in a band. But finding some like minded jam mates would be fun. Sadly the jam in my town is populated by people that aren't a great fit. I'll have to broaden my horizons a bit.
I was in a band once, based in your area. Bunch of dudes from the same town. I left, because the other guitar player was an asshole. When he wasn't there, everybody complained about him. So I confronted him once and in stead of backing me, the other's pretended like nothing was wrong and starting kissing his ass.

Having said that...I completely forgot to mention this band in my timeline.
 
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EMM

I am the cat who walks by himself
#54
Forgot to mention, the last band I was in had some of the nicest dudes I’ve ever worked with, but when the singer left due to creative differences, everyone else lost motivation.

The singer wanted the band to just be a straight up clichDeath-metal band whilst the rest of us were planning a concept album inspired by Norse Myth and Science fiction.

Think Star Wars meets The Ring Cycle.

Anyone for starting a Wagnerian Space-metal project with me? Thought not!!!
 
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