Dummy loads. Easy to DIY ?

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#21
thanks, that is all informative and all, i just feel i didn't get closer what I'm after... :)
You probably been focusing on my "pushing the air" phrase. :D

what i meant regarding to the V30 speaker is on lower volumes it doesn't sound good. But, would the speaker sound/react similar/same with both options?
Option A:
low master volume setting
Option B:
raised master volume + attenuator


additional question, what other speaker would you recommend instead of the V30 for high-gain, death/thrash metal music, considering using lower volume settings (options as above) ?
 

Robstafarian

The Good and Wise Call Me “Rufus”
#22
what i meant regarding to the V30 speaker is on lower volumes it doesn't sound good. But, would the speaker sound/react similar/same with both options?
Option A:
low master volume setting
Option B:
raised master volume + attenuator
The speaker would react similarly, as long as the power levels were similar: how that power level is achieved does not matter to the speaker, though it will matter to the amp.

additional question, what other speaker would you recommend instead of the V30 for high-gain, death/thrash metal music, considering using lower volume settings (options as above) ?
This is a question which you should pose to “Celestion's Dr. Decibel.” I recommend estimating the power level for each of the scenarios you reference (e.g. loud and quiet).
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#24
I'm also thinking to buy an Eminence speaker with the built-in attenuator. Not to attenuate really heavily, just to dial it back a bit so act like a less sensitive speaker...

Unfortunately I can't find any other speaker with low dB sensitivity than the Green backs...
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#25
I've just read the following:
"Get two cheap 8 ohm speakers and mount them face to face on a board with a hole between them. Wire them in series (total 16 ohms) and electrically in phase, which means that acoustically they will be 180 degrees out of phase. These speakers will cancel each other out, and soak up a lot of power while electrically behaving just like a pair of speakers in a cabinet. Mount them in a box with some fiberglass to absorb unwanted sound. Connect them inline with the speaker you wish to record. Series might be fine (e.g. giving you a 24 ohm load which will be very inefficient and allow you to crank the amps). Or, in parallel with a 16 ohm speaker which will give you an 8 ohm load, or parallel with an 8 ohm speaker which will give you something like a 6 ohm load."

Interesting idea. What is you opinion about this @Robstafarian ?
Also any low sensitivity 12" speakers for Metal? Or should I look for a 10" speaker instead?
 

Robstafarian

The Good and Wise Call Me “Rufus”
#26
I'm also thinking to buy an Eminence speaker with the built-in attenuator. Not to attenuate really heavily, just to dial it back a bit so act like a less sensitive speaker...
My problem with the Eminince Reignmaker (16Ω version linked) is its frequency response: its ≈5dB difference between 1kHz and ≈2kHz becomes ≈9dB at maximum attenuation. In other words, the Reignmaker's maximum attenuation gives it an even larger upper midrange spike than the Celestion Vintage 30 has; that will make the Reignmaker more difficult to tame than a less sensitive speaker would be.
 

Robstafarian

The Good and Wise Call Me “Rufus”
#27
I've just read the following:
"Get two cheap 8 ohm speakers and mount them face to face on a board with a hole between them. Wire them in series (total 16 ohms) and electrically in phase, which means that acoustically they will be 180 degrees out of phase. These speakers will cancel each other out, and soak up a lot of power while electrically behaving just like a pair of speakers in a cabinet. Mount them in a box with some fiberglass to absorb unwanted sound. Connect them inline with the speaker you wish to record.
This is an interesting idea, though I would rather save space and weight by using a Weber MASS instead (some of the MASS models have footswitches for gig use).
"Series might be fine (e.g. giving you a 24 ohm load which will be very inefficient and allow you to crank the amps). Or, in parallel with a 16 ohm speaker which will give you an 8 ohm load, or parallel with an 8 ohm speaker which will give you something like a 6 ohm load."
This is extremely poorly written, and I would not blame anyone for being confused by it:
  • “Series might be fine” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in series with an 8Ω cab—thus creating a 24Ω total load.
  • “Or, in parallel with a 16 ohm speaker which will you an 8 ohm load” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in parallel with a 16Ω cab.
  • “or parallel with an 8 ohm speaker” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in parallel with an 8Ω cab—thus creating a 5.3Ω total load.
Also any low sensitivity 12" speakers for Metal? Or should I look for a 10" speaker instead?
If you name some speakers which you consider to be good for metal, then I look for low-sensitivity speakers which have similar frequency responses.
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#28
My problem with the Eminince Reignmaker (16Ω version linked) is its frequency response: its ≈5dB difference between 1kHz and ≈2kHz becomes ≈9dB at maximum attenuation. In other words, the Reignmaker's maximum attenuation gives it an even larger upper midrange spike than the Celestion Vintage 30 has; that will make the Reignmaker more difficult to tame than a less sensitive speaker would be.
I never had issue with the midrange spike with V30s. I prefer to have a brighter sounding speaker anyway. :)
I read somewhere that the Reignmaker is the "British sounding" speaker and he Maverick (with the same attenuator) is the more American sounding one. I was checking a few YouTube videos and I liked them both, but the Reignmaker sounded crispier, which i like.
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#29
This is an interesting idea, though I would rather save space and weight by using a Weber MASS instead (some of the MASS models have footswitches for gig use).

This is extremely poorly written, and I would not blame anyone for being confused by it:
  • “Series might be fine” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in series with an 8Ω cab—thus creating a 24Ω total load.
  • “Or, in parallel with a 16 ohm speaker which will you an 8 ohm load” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in parallel with a 16Ω cab.
  • “or parallel with an 8 ohm speaker” seems to indicate both of the “cheap 8 ohm speakers” being wired in series within their cab and connecting their cab in parallel with an 8Ω cab—thus creating a 5.3Ω total load.

If you name some speakers which you consider to be good for metal, then I look for low-sensitivity speakers which have similar frequency responses.
Celestion Creambacks, (perhaps the Greenbacks as well? but it depends on the cab), Celestion V30, Hesu Demon.
I'm not familiar with Eminence or any other brands really...
 

Robstafarian

The Good and Wise Call Me “Rufus”
#30
I never had issue with the midrange spike with V30s. I prefer to have a brighter sounding speaker anyway. :)
I read somewhere that the Reignmaker is the "British sounding" speaker and he Maverick (with the same attenuator) is the more American sounding one. I was checking a few YouTube videos and I liked them both, but the Reignmaker sounded crispier, which i like.
To be clear, neither the Reignmaker nor the Maverick have attenuators. They have a handle which lets one change the voice coil cap, thus reducing efficiency and changing the speaker's frequency response (this is directly analogous to DiMarzio's Airbucker™ technique, except that DiMarzio does not install a handle).
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#32
To be clear, neither the Reignmaker nor the Maverick have attenuators. They have a handle which lets one change the voice coil cap, thus reducing efficiency and changing the speaker's frequency response (this is directly analogous to DiMarzio's Airbucker™ technique, except that DiMarzio does not install a handle).
yeah, you are right there, absolutely. I think they call it FDM or something. I just used attenuator because we know what we were talking about. :)

BTW, I'm still searching continuously the net if there is any good reactive attenuator pops up. :D
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#34
@Robstafarian should we start a separate thread regarding speakers? or can we continue here?
I gathered some information about Celestion, Eminence and WGS speakers. But i would like to know what to look/focus during the speaker hunt?
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#37
welll, nothing interesting to see hear to be honest, but here is a gutshot anyway. :D

IMG_6630[1].JPG


and as i expected the cables, jack connection and speaker cable adds to the load's 8ohm quite a bit. it's around 9.2 ohm at the end.
But my amps speaker out is labelled as "8 or 16 ohm" So I think i will be safe :)
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#38
a brief review:
I hooked up my guitar-BadMonkey-Randall preamp to my audio interface. recorded a quick song idea. Just 2 guitars (panned left and right) and drums.
Used some Mesa Cab IRs and it sounded much better and organic then what i used to with VSTs (Surprise surprise).
Then I started to search on my harddrive for more IRs and I've found the Kalthallen pack, which got tube poweramp section in the IRs as well. Now this is much better.
(even Line6 PodFarm and Bias VSTs sound much much better with these IRs)

here is a short clip (nothing fancy mastering or editing, just a quick test, used only some low and high self on the EQs.)
https://soundcloud.com/tetanus4breakfast/crcss-vs-hntd-t2-190bpm
https://soundcloud.com/tetanus4breakfast/crcss-vs-hntd-t2-190bpm
 

Tetanus

Well-Known Member
#39
I added a simple "Line out" to this load box as i wanted to see if I can improve my sound with capturing the Power amp section as well.
I only had a 47K potentiometer which is not ideal, a 10K is on order already.

The load box is working well. Getting a bit hot if I play a lot so I will install a small heatsink on the top and also will apply some thermal paste under the resistor.
So far I can't complain. Most people said it will sound dull and dark because it's just a resistive load, not a reactive. But I can't complain on this. Sounds good enough not to spend £200 on Two-Notes Captor reactive laodbox.


My only complain is on the IRs I'm using. I started to do some test to find which product could work for me.
I compared the following:
1. Fortin 33 as boost, no Power amp just Randall's preamp (signal sent from FX loop's Send)
2. no boost, guitar straight to amp, and used the load boxe's "line out", so with the Randall's power section as well this time.
IRs:
LePou LeCab 2.0, loaded Kalthallen's Mesa cab (6l6 poweramp section included in IRs)
Two-notes audio Wall of Sound, loaded the Friedman cab.
No matter which setup i used amp wise, the LeCab with Kalthallen sounded somehow better for me. The microphones got a more distinctively different character in Kalthallens samples.
Two-Notes' WoS is somehow too complicated. The Arcade mode doesn't have on/off switches for the different sections so these altering the sound. In the other mode (can't remember what its called) is better. But I found a bit annoying I can't choose precisely where to put the virtual mic. I mean you can adjust it sideways 0-100%, but I would like to put it at the edge of the cone which I don't know where is... And I don't know if the virtual mic is angled at 100% or it's just a visual marking. So this adjusting method with Two-Notes indicates me they replicated the positions of the mic completely virtually, as how it "should" sound...
With the Kalthallen IR's come a photo showing the actual mic actual position during capturing the sound. And it sounds really great.
 
#40
Hello...in my case there are two heatsinks back-to-back; each is 3" high and 1 3/4" deep. The longer one is 12" long, the shorter is 8" long.This easily handles 100w continuously; its continuous limit is probably about 150-200w.Even though heatsinks can be expensive it's wise to design a load for the continuous power that you will use; cycling on & off and waiting for it to cool is a pain and it's likely that, when patience with this process wears thin, the load rating will be exceeded and the device damaged.






 
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